Q and A Racism and Police

I wrote a comment in response to an article that Arron Rodgers stated there is a systemic problem with police shootings. He’s puppet who exercises influence over the opinion of millions of people and as can be expected he made the statement systemic problem without providing any explanation as to why he thinks there is a systemic problem. I left a comment that produced a Q and A that allowed to me address popular misconceptions about police and race.

COMMENT ONE ORIONSIMERL: Doesn’t know shit. There have been fewer police shootings of black men in this country in 2020 than there has been in the last 3 years, and presuably than there has been in any single year in the last 20. 2019 370 white suspects shot and 235 black suspects. 2020 as of August 1st, there are 215 white suspects shot and 111 black suspects shot. If we project that to years end in 2020 there will be 305 white suspects killed and 158 black suspects killed. In a year where we are on pace for a 33% reduction in police shooting black suspects, the issue is worse than its ever been. (1)


There are over 150,000 police contacts per day. If it were this great systemic problem, you should at least be able to offer 150 examples per day, 1 out of 1000 contacts. Instead there is not even clear examples once a month, but examples that upon closer inspection are not even examples of excessive force. More importantly, in order to claim a shooting is racially motivated you have to provide some evidence that the treatment of the suspect is motivated by race. Or you have to show that the police do not treat white supects the same as they treat black suspects. There is also no basis for that because white people are shot by police under similar circumstances. Has anyone heard of Ariel Roman, white man, unarmed, shot twice by black officers as he was running away from them? Probably not.

It’s so disgusting that these image promoting cock suckers take controversal and exceptional occurances and attempt to project them as representative of normal policing. And again, many of the examples they cite do not fit the labels they apply to them. Meanwhile, they claim to be antiracist but wear openly racist teeshirts. In Kenosha they were wearing shirts that read “All Races Can’t Unite Until Black Lives Matter”. The implications of the shirt are the wearers openly have an issue with white people (won’t unite) until something is done about a problem that isn’t a problem. I live on a planet of complete fucking idiots. The evidence is in the results the people of this country and this planet produce.

COMMENT TWO Shanny Luft@Orion, black people account for half of the police shootings, even though they aren’t half the population.

COMMENT THREE: Orion Simerl@Shanny Luft That isn’t correct. In 2019 370 White, 235 Black, 158 Hispanic, 39 Other, and 202 Unknown. Which is a total of 1004. This means Black people were 23.5% of police shootings while being 13% of the population. Past systemic racism has caused a higher proportion of black people to be poor or impoverished. The lower the income level you begin from, the greater the liklihood that you’ll be involved in crime. Poor black people are predisposed to committing crime because of their beginnning circumstnaces, have more encounters with law enforcement and this is why black people account for a greater proportion of police shootings. http://orioncs.net/the-racist-myth-in-criminal-justice/

COMMENT FOUR: Shanny Luft@Orion, you can’t count “unknown” as it’s own race. They could have all been black, for all we know.Excluding the people whose race is unknown, black and Hispanic people were killed by police 393 times. White people, 370 times.How is it possible that people of color make up more than half of our confirmed police shootings, when they are only 24% of the total population? (2)

2 He makes a somewhat valid point in stating that the unknown cannot be included in the overall racial percentage determination. I was working off this data set because it was easily accesible as a source for the purposes of commenting. However, the point is only somewhat valid because there is nor reason to believe that the racial breakdown of the the unknown reported police shootings is any different than the breakdown of the known suspects shot by police. Killedbypolice.net collects the news reports of each suspect who is shot by police which would provide a more definitive number)

COMMENT FIVE Orion Simerl@Shanny Luft 1st because in every police shooting even the few that are controversal, there is no evidence that the police treated the suspect differently based on race. Watch the Dylan Noble video, or the Ariel Roman Video. If either of those men would have been black there would have been national outrage. Most shootings are not controversal.

Your statistics are also off. Black and Hispanics are 30% of the population 13% and 17% respectively. Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime, 39% of violent crimes (3) 43% of property crimes when comparing whites and blacks. (4) Blacks commit a disproporate amount of crimes, which causes them to be in more frequent proportional contact with law enforcement. As mentioned, this stems from economic disadvantages from past systemic racism that no longer exists. Unless you prefer to attribute the cause of blacks committing more crimes to something else?

3: https://open.lib.umn.edu/socialproblems/chapter/8-3-who-commits-crime/

4: https://www.statista.com/statistics/252486/number-of-property-crimes-in-the-us-by-type-and-race/

COMMENT SIX: Shanny Luft@Orion, poor whites outnumber poor blacks, 19 million to 7.8 million.Why aren’t white people the majority of the prison population, since they’re the majority of poor people?

COMMENT SEVEN: Shanny Luft Again your numbers are slightly off it’s 18 million whites and 8.6 million blacks living in poverty (5) What is the proportion? 23% of black people living in poverty. Which is about the proportion of black people shot by police. You’re conflating poverty with poor. Poverty is 2/3rds median income. Indiviudally this about 21k per year and poor extends farther up the income scale than this. The black male median income individually is 24k per year, whereas the white median income is 37k per year. This gradiates up and down the income scale and means black males are more prone to commit crimes than white males, since being poor creates desperation and desperation is an incentive to take risks. As well as predisposes people to use drugs to cope with their circustances, which is crime itself and serves as the motivation for crime.

5: Kaiser Family Foundation, 2018 “Poverty Rate by Race/Ethnicity” https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/?dataView=1&currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

COMMENT EIGHT: Shanny Luft@Orion, what is your evidence that racism no longer exists?


Orion SimerlShanny Luft Black people are not discriminated against or denied opportunities of education, housing, employment, or other services based on race. (6) A black person born into money has the same advantages in life as a white person born into money. A white person born poor faces the same disadvantages as black people born poor, but in some ways more so, since blacks benefit from special treatment because race is promoted as a source of disadvantage. My evidence is well doccumented even in this exchange which is why I provided links, including links to articles that cite the research that substantiates the points. Typically the burden of proof is on the one making the assertion. You’ve failed to provide any evidence that racism does exist or make a sustained point against any point I’ve made. This is why people who promote racism as a cause stand outside and hold signs and make speeches without substance. Because they don’t have an understanding of the thing they;re against. It’s image promoting and other good feelings derrived from social interaction, and moral affirmations. They don’t care about the cause they care about the opportunity the cause presents to them individually. If they did care, they’d study the cause and understand their cause is baseless.

6: http://orioncs.net/discrimination-in-employment/ Article addresses studies that attempt to assert racial disadvantage in employement and shows racial disadvantage does not exist in employment by analyzing the employment trend. If a racial discrimination occured in employment during economic downturns black people would be fired first in preference of white workers, and in economic recoveries white people would be highered first in preference of white workers. It would be evident in the trend but instead the trend shows that the white and black employment rate goes up and down at about the same rate depending on the economy.

COMMENT TEN: Shanny Luft@OrionSimerlYou and I agree that poverty and crime today are the result of systematic racism and economic disadvantage.That means past behaviors have put many people today in a disadvantaged situation.How go you propose we rectify that?

COMMENT ELEVEN: Orion Simerl@Shanny Luft There are two solutions that I propose but they cannot be introduced until we establish that disadvantages caused by past behavior leaves black people no more disadvantaed than people who are disadvantaged by class. Poor black people are living in a world that the poor white people in this country have been living in since the founding of this country. Poor black people disadvantaged from past racism that prevented black people from accessing services, educational, and employment, opportunities. This prevents black people from establishing incomes that 1: create an enviornment that is conducive to healthy development, and 2: to accumulate wealth to pass down to suceeding generations.

Opportunity in this country is determined by access to money. For poor white people, employment opportunities that provide an income that is inadequate to meet your expenses also means that you cannot create an enviornment that is conducive to development or have money to pass to down to succeeding generations. Throughout the history of this country, middle class and wealthy people haven’t given any more of a fuck about poor white people than they have about black people or any other racial minority. A history of child labor, and there is a doccumentary about the dustbowl which featured a sign in California that was very telling. The sign was in a store that read No Niggers, No Savages, No Okies. Which conveys the sentiment that people in this country haven’t cared about poor white people either, and poor white people have also been denied services but based on class. The point being, black people despite disadvantages produced by past systemic racism, today, are no worse off because of race than poor white people. That has to be acknowledged or we cannot we move forward.

The 1st solution is called a Balance Stimulus. 1.5 trillion dollars, and it provides a nongarnishable lump sum of money to the bottom 50% of income earners based on individual income. This is everyone who earns less than 33k per year individually. The gradient is 18k to the bottom 20% 12K to the next 10% and 6k to the next 20%. The money will provide people with an opportunity to start business, repair credit, pay fines, get a DL, learn a trade, relieve them of the stress of not having money to meet expenses, and otherwise position them to have better income opportunities. (7). The next second solution is a Center for Economic Planning (8). It’s democratically directed company owned by all the people in the city or jurisdiction it is created in. Initially funded by a tax it allows people the opportunity to decide what new businesses will be created, creates more opportunities and higher quality opportunies. More importantly, it provides the public with a large enough share of the market to compete against the interests of industry in politics.

7: http://orioncs.net/balance-stimulus/

8: http://orioncs.net/centers-for-economic-planning/